CPhT - Why?

I agree! I am a tech and have to do 20 CE's every two years. Its a pain, and it costs so dang much! I felt like I was going to need all this knowledge and I can't use it! I can't counsel patients! Why do I have to know what a post prandial slump is????

Hey, Im a CPHT and you are right about the test being ridiculous. I never use that extra nonsense (that's what I work with pharmacists for) and honestly only retained whatever I have used in my work, which is the basic info. Such as the generic name for Zocor, how to count by fives, and why Mrs. Johnson's pill looks different than last time.

CPht training should be known as how to increase tuition income for community colleges. At the end of every freaking semester we get a couple of resumes from poor idealistic grads thinking there is actually a job market out there for all the techs the local college is churning out. One large local chain has a technician training program and the others would rather hire minimum wage bodies off the street. I know because one of those techs came in looking for a new job because she had been with her big box employer 3 years without a raise and when she asked for one she was told she could be replaced. So prospective techs-look for another type of training-the local hospital has a staff where the least senior CPht has been there almost 20 years. And by the way we try to pay our techs well but the state assoc. wage survey is crap. Their survey says the average tech makes $13.50 per hour-but in one years survey if you read the data there was one respondent from community pharmacy. Don't ya just love statistics?

Im a certified tech...and I have been a tech for many moons...and I can say with out a doubt that you dont need to know any of that shit! honestly the only thing I use is dosage calculations and generic/brand names...even that you can look up on the computer...one of the perks of working for a whore corpo chain is that they paid for the classes and the test...there is no way I would pay out of pocket for that bs!

Aaaaaamen! I took that damned test several years ago, after I'd already been a tech for a few years. Lots of headache for the measly pittance my employer raised my hourly wage. I was actually naive enough at the time to think it would help me! Here's what it did not do: 1)Help me type faster (skill I acquired with... hello! PRACTICE)
2)Deal with snotty customers (another acquired skill, though a sense of humor helps)
3)Perform remedial math acurately (thanks to my first grade teacher, I've got the ol' + and - thing down)

The test is a hyped up scam, scaring the shit out of baby techs across America. I'm an asset to my pharmacy because I show up on time and do what needs to be done. Not because I pull incomplete drug trivia out of my ass while the pharmacist isn't looking!

Au contraire, dear Angry Pharmacist. Any hate mail should go straight to the exam board!

I do wish that the PTCB would differentiate between the various practice settings. I've done nothing but retail for years and have never had to deal with IV bags.

I do believe that we should learn what various drugs do. Not in any great detail mind you, but when patients ask us to refill their "sugar pills" we need to know that they are not asking for the ones next to the alcohol pads on aisle 3.

We should also know about pharmacy laws, and at least have a clue about common health conditions (diabetes, hypertension, etc...) Cushing's disease is a bit rare.

WE DO NOT COUNSEL PATIENTS. WE ARE NOT PAID ENOUGH TO TAKE THAT KIND OF RISK.

That is the big problem with a little bit of knowledge. We think we know something, and it doesn't help that the general public confuses the two job titles. People think that everyone that works in a pharmacy is a pharmacist.

What pharmacist goes to school to learn about third party adjudication? Maybe leave that for us technicians.

You have an interesting point. I have always thought that knowing as much as possible about the field in which you work is a good thing, but you are right, there is no way a Pharm Tech school can provide an adequate education in such topics, and a little knowledge can be dangerous.

Techs would definitely benefit from studying common drug errors, interactions and such, because any other questions should be referred to you anyway.

I had a classmate in my A&P class- a prerequisite for our nursing program- who would always say, "What does this have to do with wiping butts?"

~Raven

Yeah, I was really surprised at that too. Some technican's "CE" was an article about depression, and then questions discussing whether a hypothetical patient had it? WTF?

If I had come out of high school, worked in a retail pharmacy environment and then had to learn about Cushing's Syndrome I'd wonder what the hell was going on. Problem is, some people will now think they're equivalent to docs/pharmacists. A technician training program here does "pharmacology / anatomy and physiology 'modules' ". Why?

I agree 100%, and then add my own personal rant:

PTCB and pharmacy teachers, WHY the HELL are you writing this stuff in textbooks and teaching us this stuff in a class, then when we're in an actual pharmacy, we are NOT ALLOWED to use more than 25% of it?! You teach us all sorts of crap about classes and side effects and interactions and such, then when we're in the pharmacy, we're expected to be little more than register/filling/data entry robots. If that's the way it's going to be, then why bother teaching us anything about the medications? Just test us on counting back change, dosage calculations, and pharmacy administration, and call it done.

Signed,
the girl who's tired of getting yelled at for trying to use the knowledge she was tested on.

I totally agree with you. I took it on a whim to get extra cash 2 years ago and was shocked with all the crap they make you study. The kicker is none of that is on the actual test. And if anything, when I took it, the test was too damned easy. A co-worker of mine went to take it to look good on his pharmacy school app and the day before he looked at me and asked me what Hydrocodone was for. Needless to say he passed because he received one of the versions that was almost solely math.

Its good for Tech's to know some of that stuff to help spot common interactions but to know actual mechanisms and what not? That is far and above what is needed

Not a whole lot... a lot of useless math that you should know how to do before you work in the pharmacy, as a high school diploma is normally required... Of course, we do have one tech who recently passed her certification exam and thinks she knows everything. Only, she certainly does not, and her trying to sound smart makes all of us fight not to laugh at how stupid she sounds...

Completely true! I heard one of my so called ?certified techs? telling a coumadin pt they could take IBU (with the MD knowing) because it was ok as long as they have their blood drawn regularly. While this is somewhat true, I couldn?t believe she was actually telling a pt that with out me talking to them or their MDs OK.

Completely true! I heard one of my so called "certified techs"? telling a coumadin pt they could take IBU (without the MD knowing) because it was ok as long as they have their blood drawn regularly. While this is somewhat true, I couldn't believe she was actually telling a pt that with out me talking to them or their MDs OK.

Hmm. Does the CPhT course teach enough info that I might be able to pass as a pharmacist for one of those jobs that doesn't ask for a license?

I have had a real problem with techs in my pharmacy jumping in with nuggets of "knowledge" when taking in scripts or when I am speaking to patients. Techs perform a critical role in pharmacy settings, but pharmacology and pharmacotherapy are not in their skill sets, nor should they be. We have had discussions that have taken care of that problem.
Courses pretending to give them these skills will only make it worse.

When I was in training to become a CPhT, I thought the same thing, but the longer I work, the more I've realized that it can be worth it. I've caught mistakes in dosing and interactions that the computer didn't catch and the pharmacist wouldn't have seen because they weren't looking at the patient's profile.

I guess anything that can prevent a possible error is worth it. I, for one, am glad I learned what I did.

Speaking as a CPhT, I agree with you 100% Along with everything you said, add to the fact that we are legally restricted (at least in my state) from giving any kind of medical advice. Therefore it seems that giving us medical information would lead to an unnecessary temptation to try to use it, in the process endangering our patients and breaking the law.

I also don't appreciate ignorant customers that think I'm being a jerk when I don't answer their medically related questions (whether I know the answer or not), because hey, everybody with a white vest on must be a pharmacist.

that's great. im still bitter about when i took the exam. there was no increase in pay at all. i studied for 8 months before taking the exam. a guy that went with me, studied on the way to the exam in the car and i scored ONE point higher than he did.

i have yet to mix an IV.
although it is good to know that the best time to take a pregnancy test is first thing in the morning when you wake up (yes that was a question on the test)

It's necessary to be certified because no one will work this hard, for so many ungrateful hydrocodone addicts, crackheads, welfare spongers and general assholes for minimum wage. We have to justify the better paycheck somehow.

i'm a NON-certified technician in new hamshire and i agree with you, and it's one of the reasons i never bothered to become certified. techs i've worked with who considered certification bring in booklets and practice tests and i look them over and i KNOW i'm never going make practical application of 80% of this stuff. i'm not legally permitted to give advice or council to patients. and i'm never going to need to know anything about mixing IV bags in my retail setting. if the test looked more practical to my actual situation, maybe i would spend the money and take the time out of my life to study and take the test.

I'm a CPhT (required for techs in my state) and an intern. I liked what I learned for the tech test so much that I quit my art degree and went to pharmacy school!

I agree that most of the stuff on the exam is pretty useless. But consider... we have had people apply for tech positions that can't do the math to determine an amoxicillin dose. I have worked with techs that don't know if Lipitor is for cholesterol or diabetes. And customers call all the time saying "Can you fill my blood pressure pill?" Would you prefer the tech to have to say, "Hey Angry, is Norvasc for blood pressure?" or just fill it and have done? Do you remember that 20/20 episode that aired not so long ago? Techs really need to have some sort of standardization. At least the CPhT exam is a start at that.

As a former technician for almost 10 years prior to finally deciding to go to pharmacy school, I can attest to 2 things. 1) getting the certification for a job in retail is a waste of time and money
2) when your a tech you may think you know what your talking about...but you have no idea.

I personally cringe when I hear/see techs, certified or not, giving medical advice to patients. I am an intern. When the pharmacists are busy, it is MY job to give that advice. I have been in college for 6 years and have that much plus more of retail/hospital/clinic experience. I don't think just because you pass one test you are suddenly educated enough to make recommendations to patients. I was a tech before I got in pharmacy school and I never DARED to give medical advice, even about OTC meds. I've even had a patient ask me a question about an OTC medication, only to have a tech (non-certified I might add) interrupt me to tell the patient what was the "best thing to use." And this tech couldn't even pass her pre-req algebra 1 test to get in to nursing school. God help us all. Techs, don't overstep your boundaries. Seriously. It's someone's life you are dealing with.

I took my CPhT exam. Nailed it, 850 points of a possible 900. I had been a hospital tech for about two years at that point. Didn't study a damn bit for the exam, and went out and partied and drank the night before. Only took it because the hospital that I was at offered a $2/hour raise if you were certified. Now, four years later, I've let it lapse, and have no intention of renewing it, it's such a crock of shit, even from a hospital perspective. Anyways, I'm at a different hospital now, one that doesn't pay a premium for the cert.

I got certified through a program offered to high school seniors in my area. The cost was a LOT less than what it would be if I did the classes at the local community college ($800 vs. $1200). It also took a shorter amount of time.
However, the only reason any of that information will be pertinent to me is because I became a CPhT as a stepping stone to pharmacy school.
Why give someone all this information and not allow them to use it? Techs are not legally allowed to counsel patients. In one of the workbooks we had, it would pose questions that patients might have and 99.999% of the time the answer was "Refer the patient to the pharmacist."

I agree with Andrew..

If you know what your scope of practice is, as a tech, it still does not preclude your knowledge base and if you are working in a "team environment", your knowledge is input into makeing sure your client is safe and gets the appropriate care; ie understanding enough to catch the errors, or therapeutically save man power in doing IVs or something cause the script wasnt right or didnt follow protocols or...

Usually techs are the ones to see more info; a broader picture of the client, from all sorts of basis, than the pharm does (and I am talking both retail and hospital).

And CPhT.. I totally agree with you
I lost (my choice) my CphT cause I went on to another field (H&S and couldn't keep my hours up.. cant work 7 days a week).

K.. claws out... it looks like a lot of techs, or pharms looking for techs, are looking for non-thinkers, easy hires.. I wont go the pill and fill route.

There is a line drawn. And believe it or not, it was drawn before I even started 25 years ago.

This is a long old debate *sigh*, but "angry pharmacist", I think there are enough of us that think you are wrong.. or you have not yet learned to let go & trust some of us to do what you used to do so that you can do fully what you need to do now. Some of us have the skills.. if you ensure those you hire have the skills.....

My state requires all technicians to register with the state board. In order to register with them, you have to be nationally certified. Although once you're registered you're not penalized if you let the CPhT expire. I took the test relatively cold turkey - I had worked as a pharm clerk for a few months, and took a practice test online. Reading all of this, I am so so glad I didn't do any formal schooling for it, because I probably would be just as frustrated.

And now, to add insult to injury, JCHOA is requiring all, make that ALL, techs to be nationally certified if you want to be accredited for whatever purpose. I work for an agency, and they will now only be able to employ CPhTs!!

And now, to add insult to injury, JCHOA is requiring all, make that ALL, techs to be nationally certified if you want to be accredited for whatever purpose. I work for an agency, and they will now only be able to employ CPhTs!!

I totally agree. Our company pays for us to be certified and they pay for us to do the CE's required every 2 years to keep up our certification. I don't use any of that knowledge that I learned in the classes that our company provides for us, eventhough I did get the highest grades in the classes. If it wasn't paid for, and if I didn't get a nice hefty raise for doing it I surely wouldn't have. But since they do pay for it w/in 6 months if you're not certified you have to become certified through the company. But hey at least I didn't waste MY money!

I understand the frustration of the retail techs regarding some of the topics covered on the PTCB exam. However, there is a historical reason for that - the test was originally developed for techs in hospital positions. Frankly, I'm not sure that the retail chains would have ever supported the certification process on their own - they sort of got drawn into it because of the states starting to regulate techs more heavily.

I am dependant on good techs to do my job. But I wonder in whose interests it is in to professionalize technicians. They get no more money but must pay huge sums to get licensed now. No doubt the intention in the future is to have a system where techs are responsible for prescription dispensing, eliminating the need for expensive pharmacists.

Um... Ellen RPh, can you point us towards that particular piece of goodness?

While Im not certified, I am a tech, and I am with you all the way. All I need to know is how to count by fives and generic names. Why I have to pay a crapload of money to learn something Ill never use is beyond me.

While Im not certified, I am a tech, and I am with you all the way. All I need to know is how to count by fives and generic names. Why I have to pay a crapload of money to learn something Ill never use is beyond me.

I think I love you.

I have worked in a pharmacy for nigh 2 years now, and no one has been able to put forth concise, well-put, and hilarious arguments against all of the issues facing anyone in a pharmacy these days. I plan on spending several hours alternately laughing my ass off and emphatically nodding as I go back and read your previous posts. I'm particularly looking forward to the post about the 20/20 special that aired a couple of months ago. Thank you.

I took the test 2 years ago (no classes, just studied and took the test) and while most of the material I looked over was interesting and informative, I cannot legally use much of it. Also, I work with another tech who constantly oversteps her bounds and uses personal experience as grounds to counsel. ("My Dad had that procedure done and he was able to take that drug with no problem!") She has often asked me for my study materials for the exam and I shudder to think what a little more knowledge would do to her ego. She would turn in to the pseudo-pharmacists that you've been complaining about! But I do believe that I am a better tech for learning more about the profession, laws, drugs and disease states. I just know and abide by my limits.

Hi everyone!

I have another complaint for yah. I've been a tech for about 3 years and have just been promoted. However, the promotion includes being certified, which I am not. I just started studying for test and all i can say is, "that's crap." Techs shouldn't have to be responsible to know that stuff. Thats why you work under the pharmacist license, right? Guess not!

There's a place in a busy, modern pharmacy for a tech to consult customers about OTC products and vitamins. Today, that would include Alli, Prilosec, Miralax, Zaditor, Nicoderm, Mucinex, Naproxen and Plan B. They wouldn't alter recommended dosages relative to medical conditions or a current Rx profile without speaking to a RPh but the RPh wouldn't have to stop what they were doing to go to the consult window to talk OTCs. For the retail pharmacy, this would be a more valuable certification than the current one. Label them CCPhTs - Certified Consulting Pharmacy Techs. I'm embarrassed to hear pharmacists admonish techs for informing customers about what OTC products are on the shelf and what they do. It sounds too much like "I'm the Pharmacist. I'll tell the customer where the Robitussin is."

being certified and learning all that extra stuff just makes one a better tech. a good tech knows his legal (and knowledge) boundries.. and will adhere to them. a good tech will also know what to refill when john doe walks up and says "please refill my cholesterol pill".

The information on the exam, for me, has proved worth it.

Allow techs to counsel on OTC's? Absolutely not. The difference between an OTC and a prescription medication is nothing more than a few oddly thought out laws.

Are we going to teach techs about arachidonic acid pathways and interactions?
It took me an entire undergrad education to get to the point where I could fully understand and appreciate these matters.

Allowing techs to counsel on OTC's would be a huge liability and safety issue, and would further blur the lines in the public's eyes as to who does what in the pharmacy. In addition it would further the public's perception that OTC's are harmless.

Count me as yet ANOTHER tech who never used 90% of that PTCB stuff. I was certified six years but thank goodness: I don't have to renew this year! (I got a job in my field now. Now I just get to pay off student loans for the degree! >_<)

I work in the lab at a hospital in AZ and was recently told by a level III CPHT that I shouldnt waste my money by going to school. She said to buy the book, study for the test, and the hospital would pay to take the exam. And than once I have passed I can be hired as a tech and within 6 months or so of actual experience I could apply anywhere. Is this true? Should I not worry about the actual classroom time?
Thanks, Curious

The question becomes, who is liable? No matter how meds are dispensed or advice given, someone is liable for damages if a mistake is made. I tell my techs that they do not get paid enough to accept the liability involved in the performance of professional RPh. duties.

--Um... Ellen RPh, can you point us towards that particular piece of goodness?--

I'm not Ellen, but she is referring to JCHAO certified hospitals. For a hospital to be JCHAO certified, all their pharmacy technician must be CPHT. JCHAO certification of hospitals is optional, and many hospitals are not JCHAO certified. So what Ellen says is only true of certain hospitals.

I'm amazed, you didn't get any upset techs busting your ass over this one. I'm telling everyone I know about your site, it's the best thing I've discovered since women.

I don't mind techs telling someone the X is down aisle 3. I would never allow think to let a tech tell someone what to take for an OTC, there are questions that need to be asked because maybe you shouldn't be taking a cough suppressant and should be seeing your doctor because may its not the common cold but rather pneumonia. Techs don't carry malpractice insurance to cover them like pharmacists and doctors do. I really would not want someone who has been a tech for 6 months and passed the exam telling me its okay to more than 8 tylenol a day because it won't really hurt me because they do it and take 6 benedryl a night to sleep, that really giving me a feeling of safety, not. I've also seen on amazon.com books about becoming a tech and it seems like a bunch are trying to make it out that you'll be just like a pharmacist, half of one book was on compounding techniques and methods. Of course the only time I know of that its a good idea to get certified in is if your working in a nuclear pharmacy and are a nuclear tech.

hay i took the test and fail it by 45 point and i study alot of math and when i took the test it was about the laws and drugs i go 605 and i will retake it because my hospital woun't let you work with out it now so if any one can tell me what on line test they took to help them pass the test because i will not pay 4,000 to take it at the community collage. help?

im not certified but will be eventually, sucks that the test is so bad but some do plan to work in hospitals which the knowledge would be previlent in knowing.

Well June, I have been a tech for almost 10 years now. I wouldn't want anyone such as yourself getting your hands on this info. You don't sound as though you even got your highschool diploma. I have to agree with everyone already posted up here. You only use about 5% of the information you are required to know to take this test. No, techs counseling on OTC meds is a bad idea, if for not other reasons, you don't know how that OTC is going to interact with their RX. I think the only thing the certification does for us Techs is it helps us to get better wages. I took the damn thing piss ass drunk. NO seriously, I was 22 and my district trainer from the big corpo chain was going out with the senior techs in my store and some other friends of mine so I didn't care and I went. They promised to have me back by midnight. My husband tells me I showed up about 3 am, I don't know how I got to the test site. I had to run out and throw up a couple of times, I feel bad for the janitor, and I was the next to last person out of the test. The damn thing was riddled with IV calcs. I WORK IN A DAMN RETAIL PHARMACY! If it makes you feel better I didn't just luck into passing the test, I had already graduated with a BS in biology and took Calculus for fun. It just made it a challenge for me for once, I had to actually concentrate, which only made me wanna throw up more.

FYI: the CPhT test is a crock of shit.

I took the test several years ago and have since let my certification run out. Why? Simply because I don't need it. The class was a waste of time, the test was also. Plus, everything that I learned in class was pointless. What the tech needs to know he/she learns from hands-on training in a pharmacy.

I read the original post and some of the responses to it. I had to stop, it was making me sick. First and foremost, it is not “shit” or “dumb” stuff on Pharmacy Technician Cortication Exam (PTCE). The information on the exam is very important information, to anyone who wants to learn or grow as a professional. I passed the exam the first time; I study very hard for it. I am almost done with my pre pharmacy. So, looks like I will be ahead of my studying; from all that “shit” on the exam. If you’re not interested in learning that information, a position as a technician is not for you. I can’t wait until they Pharmacy Technicians jobs are licensed, so only serious people are employed!

Some of you interns really have no respect for Pharmacy Technicians. They do a lot for the pharmacy. Some of you act like they are idiots, but for the most part, they are really knowledgeable. I would hope no one that I know that works in a pharmacy as a Technician would tell anyone to take eight tylenol per day. I know I wouldn't. It doesn't take a genius to know that, and you are making Techs out to be idiots by making the statement "i really would not want someone who has been a tech for 6 months and passed the exam telling me its okay to more than 8 tylenol a day". You're making the Pharmacy Technician profession out to be a joke. And by the way pharmacyintern2010, you spelled Benadryl wrong, I can think of plenty technicians that could spell that right. I really hope that some of you interns don't treat your future techs with this type of disrespect.

Remedial? I think you mean menial.

My employer is offering a 5% raise and an additional $1 on top of my shift differential if I get certified so I'm going to do it. I've been resisting this crap for 7 years. My main issue with it is some stupid organization can pop up and offer certification for something I've been doing for years and then my employer can seize upon it and use it to exclude me from a raise.

Maybe I could start an organization that certifies burger flippers, we could make of test with a mixed bag of questions about e. coli telemeres and handwashing laws, then everybody who works at mcdonalds would have to give me $150 before they can get a raise. Sounds absurd? That whats happening to Rx techs right now.

Iowa is now requiring all technicians, including retail techs, to be certified by 2010 or they can't practice the duties of a pharmacy technician in the state of Iowa. Should be interesting to see how many independent stores get in trouble while big chains get a free pass as always.

Gee, I wonder if they'll change the exam so it's actually relevant to retail technicians, who are the vast majority of people required to take the test now in Iowa? Yeah right. It'll still be questions about compounding intraveneous solutions and cleaning laminar flow hoods, and no questions about important things like how not to cross legal and ethical lines while dealing with the public. Wait, you mean most techs actually deal with human beings, and not laminar flow hoods? Noooo.

anyone interested in becoming a non-certified/full time lab assistant?
i saw a job availability at a compounding pharmacy in my local paper
www.thecompounder.com has information